香港寵物小精靈村落 論壇

標題: 雙打隊伍求評(附戰報) [打印本頁]
作者: Flygon2076    時間: 28/2/2015 07:45 AM
標題: 雙打隊伍求評(附戰報)
前言: 由於我是蜻蜓控，所以組了一個可以容得下沙漠蜻蜓，基於VGC15而進行的隊伍，隊伍主題為順風，針對洛托姆及劈斬司令這兩隻基本速度比較低的精靈，基本上沙漠蜻蜓被選中的機率頗低，通常是用以針對對方的保護眾及席多藍恩等怕地精靈。這隊伍對先讀要求比較高，例如讀雷系招讓沙漠蜻蜓上場，沙漠蜻蜓的發揮才會較好。

Metagross-Mega @ Metagrossite
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- Zen Headbutt
- Hammer Arm
- Protect

Togekiss (M) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 248 HP / 192 SpD / 68 Spe
Calm Nature
- Air Slash
- Follow Me
- Tailwind
- Dazzling Gleam

Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 44 Def / 64 SpA / 148 SpD
Calm Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt
- Will-O-Wisp
- Protect

2076 (Flygon) (M) @ Earth Plate
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Tailwind
- Earthquake
- Draco Meteor
- Feint

Bisharp (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch
- Protect
- Knock Off

Talonflame (M) @ Sky Plate
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 84 HP / 252 Atk / 172 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Tailwind
- Quick Guard

戰報:
Battle Spot Doubles (VGC 2015)
Rated battle
Species Clause: Limit one of each Pokemon
Item Clause: Limit one of each item
HKPNVE2076's team:
Metagross / Togekiss / Rotom-Wash / Flygon / Bisharp / Talonflame
SimplebidoofxD's team:
Swampert / Politoed / Rotom-Heat / Manectric / Mienshao / Scizor
SkillGame joined.
Battle between SimplebidoofxD and HKPNVE2076 started!
SimplebidoofxD sent out Manectric!
SimplebidoofxD sent out Rotom-Heat!
Go! Talonflame!
Go! Rotom-Wash!

Turn 1

Talonflame, come back!
Go! Flygon!
The opposing Rotom-Heat used Protect!
The opposing Rotom-Heat protected itself!
The opposing Manectric used Volt Switch!
It doesn't affect Flygon... (讀中了)
Rotom-Wash used Hydro Pump!
The opposing Rotom-Heat protected itself!

Turn 2

SkillGame left.
Rotom-Wash used Protect!
Rotom-Wash protected itself!
The opposing Manectric used Volt Switch!
Rotom-Wash protected itself!
Flygon used Tailwind!
The tailwind blew from behind your team!
The opposing Rotom-Heat used Will-O-Wisp!
Flygon was burned!
Flygon was hurt by its burn!

Turn 3

The opposing Manectric went back to SimplebidoofxD!
SimplebidoofxD sent out Scizor!
Flygon used Feint! (務求拿下洛托姆，還以為他會保護...)
The opposing Rotom-Heat lost 4.2–6.3% of its health!
Rotom-Wash used Hydro Pump!
It's super effective! The opposing Rotom-Heat lost 89.7–95.7% of its health!
The opposing Rotom-Heat ate its Sitrus Berry!
The opposing Rotom-Heat restored HP using its Sitrus Berry!
The opposing Rotom-Heat used Overheat!
It's not very effective... Flygon lost 38.7% of its health!
The opposing Rotom-Heat's Special Attack harshly fell!
Flygon was hurt by its burn!

Turn 4

The opposing Rotom-Heat used Protect!
The opposing Rotom-Heat protected itself!
Flygon used Draco Meteor!
The opposing Rotom-Heat protected itself!
Rotom-Wash used Will-O-Wisp!
The opposing Scizor avoided the attack!
The opposing Scizor used Knock Off!
Flygon lost 36.8% of its health!
The opposing Scizor knocked off Flygon's Earth Plate!
The opposing Scizor lost some of its HP!
Flygon fainted!
Go! Talonflame!

Turn 5

Talonflame used Brave Bird!
It's not very effective... The opposing Rotom-Heat lost 23.0–29.0% of its health! (拿不下...)
Talonflame is damaged by recoil!
The opposing Scizor used Bullet Punch!
It's not very effective... Rotom-Wash lost 11.5% of its health!
The opposing Scizor lost some of its HP!
Rotom-Wash used Will-O-Wisp!
The opposing Scizor was burned!
The opposing Rotom-Heat used Thunder!
Talonflame avoided the attack! (神運!!)
Rotom-Wash restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
The opposing Scizor was hurt by its burn!
Your team's tailwind petered out!

Turn 6

Rotom-Wash used Protect!
Rotom-Wash protected itself!
Talonflame used Brave Bird!
It's not very effective... The opposing Rotom-Heat lost 0.1–4.1% of its health!
Talonflame is damaged by recoil!
The opposing Rotom-Heat fainted!
The opposing Scizor used Superpower!
Rotom-Wash protected itself!
Rotom-Wash restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
The opposing Scizor was hurt by its burn!
SimplebidoofxD sent out Mienshao!

Turn 7

The opposing Mienshao used Fake Out!
The Normal Gem strengthened Fake Out's power!
Talonflame lost 26.4% of its health! (這回應該要用快速防禦的)
Talonflame flinched and couldn't move!
Rotom-Wash used Hydro Pump!
The opposing Scizor lost 48.0–52.0% of its health!
The opposing Scizor used Knock Off!
A critical hit! Talonflame lost 55.8% of its health!
The opposing Scizor knocked off Talonflame's Sky Plate!
The opposing Scizor lost some of its HP!
The opposing Scizor fainted!
SimplebidoofxD sent out Manectric!

Turn 8

Talonflame used Brave Bird!
It's super effective! The opposing Mienshao lost 100% of its health!
Talonflame is damaged by recoil!
The opposing Mienshao fainted!
Talonflame fainted!
The opposing Manectric used Hidden Power! (沒有更好的對策嗎?)
It's not very effective... Rotom-Wash lost 7.6% of its health!
Rotom-Wash used Hydro Pump!
The opposing Manectric lost 70.9–72.9% of its health!
Rotom-Wash restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Go! Metagross!

Turn 9

Metagross's Metagrossite is reacting to HKPNVE999's Mega Bracelet!
Metagross has Mega Evolved into Mega Metagross!
The opposing Manectric used Hidden Power!
It's not very effective... Metagross lost 9.7% of its health!
Metagross used Zen Headbutt!
The opposing Manectric lost 27.1–29.1% of its health!
The opposing Manectric fainted!
HKPNVE2076 won the battle!

____________________________________________________________________________________________

Battle Spot Doubles (VGC 2015)
Rated battle
Species Clause: Limit one of each Pokemon
Item Clause: Limit one of each item
HKPNVE2076's team:
Metagross / Togekiss / Rotom-Wash / Flygon / Bisharp / Talonflame
trueArt's team:
Talonflame / Starmie / Mawile / Nidoking
Battle timer is now ON: inactive players will automatically lose when time's up. (requested by trueArt)
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
Battle between trueArt and HKPNVE2076 started!
trueArt sent out Talonflame!
trueArt sent out Starmie!
Go! 2076 (Flygon)!
Go! Bisharp!

Turn 1
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
trueArt has 120 seconds left.
Bisharp used Protect!
Bisharp protected itself!
2076 used Tailwind!
The tailwind blew from behind your team!
The opposing Talonflame used Flare Blitz!
Bisharp protected itself!
The opposing Starmie used Trick Room! (放空間的海星...)
The opposing Starmie twisted the dimensions!

Turn 2
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
HKPNVE2076 has 120 seconds left.
2076, come back!
Go! Rotom-Wash!
The opposing Talonflame used Brave Bird! (奇怪不用火推，可能怕我沙漠蜻蜓有岩招?)
It's not very effective... Bisharp lost 33.3% of its health!
The opposing Talonflame is damaged by recoil!
Bisharp used Sucker Punch!
It's super effective! The opposing Starmie lost 100% of its health!
Bisharp lost some of its HP!
The opposing Starmie fainted!
trueArt sent out Nidoking!

Turn 3
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
Bisharp used Protect!
Bisharp protected itself!
The opposing Talonflame used Brave Bird!
It's not very effective... Rotom-Wash lost 24.2% of its health!
The opposing Talonflame is damaged by recoil!
The opposing Nidoking used Earth Power!
Bisharp protected itself!
Rotom-Wash used Hydro Pump!
It's super effective! The opposing Talonflame lost 83.3–85.3% of its health!
The opposing Talonflame fainted!
Rotom-Wash restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
trueArt sent out Mawile!

Turn 4
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
Bisharp, come back!
Go! 2076 (Flygon)!
The opposing Mawile's Mawilite is reacting to trueArt's Mega Bracelet!
The opposing Mawile has Mega Evolved into Mega Mawile!
The opposing Mawile used Play Rough!
Rotom-Wash lost 81.5% of its health! (努力值是調能擋一下的，但無奈被BraveBird削過血)
Rotom-Wash fainted!
The opposing Nidoking used Earth Power! (讀中了...)
It doesn't affect 2076...
Your team's tailwind petered out!
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
Go! Metagross!

Turn 5
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
Metagross's Metagrossite is reacting to HKPNVE2076's Mega Bracelet!
Metagross has Mega Evolved into Mega Metagross!
Metagross used Protect!
Metagross protected itself!
The opposing Mawile used Play Rough!
It's super effective! 2076 lost 100% of its health!
2076 fainted!
The opposing Nidoking used Earth Power!
Metagross protected itself!
The twisted dimensions returned to normal! (終於捱過了欺空)
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
Go! Bisharp!

Turn 6
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
HKPNVE2076 has 120 seconds left.
HKPNVE2076 has 90 seconds left.
The opposing Nidoking used Protect!
The opposing Nidoking protected itself!
Bisharp used Sucker Punch! (還以為尼多是專愛...)
But it failed!
Metagross used Zen Headbutt!
The opposing Nidoking protected itself!
The opposing Mawile used Play Rough!
Bisharp lost 56.7% of its health!
Bisharp fainted!

Turn 7
You have 140 seconds to make your decision.
HKPNVE2076 has 120 seconds left.
Metagross used Zen Headbutt!
It's super effective! The opposing Nidoking lost 100% of its health!
The opposing Nidoking fainted!
The opposing Mawile used Play Rough!
It's not very effective... Metagross lost 37.4% of its health!

Turn 8
You have 140 seconds to make your decision.
HKPNVE2076 has 120 seconds left.
Metagross used Iron Head!
The opposing Mawile lost 73.0–75.0% of its health!
The opposing Mawile flinched and couldn't move! (神運，不過沒膽怯應該都能贏)

Turn 9
You have 140 seconds to make your decision.
trueArt forfeited.
trueArt left.
Player 1 disconnected and has a minute to reconnect!
HKPNVE2076 won the battle!


歡迎討論及尋求活用沙漠蜻蜓的意見
作者: DOMO    時間: 28/2/2015 11:39 AM
蜻蜓龍我上一次用是龍石版,覺得流星用的機會比較多.
第一場沒點快速防禦也不算失誤,都是沒必要防的東西.
第二場你的RP不在膽怯,而是大嘴的配招,不過頭槌也無愧對攻神器之名.
作者: abbozto    時間: 28/2/2015 03:31 PM
沒有不意打的大嘴娃……應該根本不常見吧
可是就算沒不意打都應該要有打落/火牙才好像像樣點
作者: Flygon2076    時間: 1/3/2015 08:00 AM
本帖最後由 Flygon2076 於 1/3/2015 08:26 AM 編輯

那大家覺得我這隊的組隊和配招有沒有問題，或者有甚麼改善空間?
沙漠蜻蜓的選中率依然很低......

另外有個問題，懷疑是Showdown有問題，巨牙鯊應該比巨金怪要快，因MEGA速度計算是在MEGA前進行
雖然這場就算巨金怪先被秒我也應該能勝出

Battle Spot Doubles (VGC 2015)
Rated battle
Species Clause: Limit one of each Pokemon
Item Clause: Limit one of each item
HKPNVE2076's team:
Metagross / Togekiss / Rotom-Wash / Flygon / Bisharp / Talonflame
Dylan of Sinnoh's team:
Bisharp / Thundurus-Therian / Sylveon / Sharpedo / Terrakion / Arcanine
Battle timer is now ON: inactive players will automatically lose when time's up. (requested by Dylan of Sinnoh)
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
Battle between Dylan of Sinnoh and HKPNVE2076 started!
Dylan of Sinnoh sent out Terrakion!
Dylan of Sinnoh sent out Thundurus-Therian!
Go! Talonflame!
Go! Rotom-Wash!

Turn 1
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
Dylan of Sinnoh has 120 seconds left.
Talonflame, come back!
Go! 2076 (Flygon)!
The opposing Thundurus-Therian used Grass Knot!
It's super effective! Rotom-Wash lost 14.0% of its health!
The opposing Terrakion used Rock Slide!
It's not very effective... 2076 lost 19.4% of its health!
Rotom-Wash lost 28.7% of its health!
Rotom-Wash used Hydro Pump!
It's super effective! The opposing Terrakion lost 89.7–91.7% of its health!
Rotom-Wash restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Turn 2
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
★Dylan of Sinnoh: Woops. Mislicked lol
HKPNVE2076 has 120 seconds left.
Dylan of Sinnoh withdrew Thundurus-Therian!
Dylan of Sinnoh sent out Bisharp!
Rotom-Wash used Protect!
Rotom-Wash protected itself!
The opposing Terrakion used Rock Slide!
It's not very effective... 2076 lost 20.6% of its health!
Rotom-Wash protected itself!
2076 used Tailwind!
The tailwind blew from behind your team!
Rotom-Wash restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Turn 3
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
HKPNVE2076 has 120 seconds left.
2076 used Earthquake!
It doesn't affect Rotom-Wash...
It's super effective! The opposing Terrakion lost 8.3–10.3% of its health!
It's super effective! The opposing Bisharp lost 93.8–95.8% of its health!
The opposing Terrakion fainted!
Rotom-Wash used Hydro Pump!
The opposing Bisharp lost 4.2–6.2% of its health!
The opposing Bisharp fainted!
Rotom-Wash restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
★Dylan of Sinnoh: Odd plays, indeed.
Dylan of Sinnoh sent out Thundurus-Therian!
Dylan of Sinnoh sent out Sharpedo!

Turn 4
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
The opposing Sharpedo used Protect!
The opposing Sharpedo protected itself!
2076 used Draco Meteor!
The opposing Thundurus-Therian avoided the attack!
The opposing Thundurus-Therian used Hidden Power!
It's super effective! 2076 lost 59.4% of its health!
2076 fainted!
Rotom-Wash used Thunderbolt!
The opposing Sharpedo protected itself!
Rotom-Wash restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
The opposing Sharpedo's Speed Boost raised its Speed!
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
Go! Metagross!

Turn 5
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
HKPNVE2076 has 120 seconds left.
Metagross's Metagrossite is reacting to HKPNVE2076's Mega Bracelet!
Metagross has Mega Evolved into Mega Metagross!
The opposing Sharpedo's Sharpedonite is reacting to Dylan of Sinnoh's Mega Bracelet!
The opposing Sharpedo has Mega Evolved into Mega Sharpedo!
Metagross used Zen Headbutt!
The opposing Thundurus-Therian lost 95.9–99.9% of its health!
The opposing Thundurus-Therian used Hidden Power!
It's not very effective... Rotom-Wash lost 9.6% of its health!
Rotom-Wash used Thunderbolt!
It's super effective! The opposing Sharpedo lost 100% of its health!
The opposing Sharpedo fainted!
Rotom-Wash restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Your team's tailwind petered out!

Turn 6
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
HKPNVE2076 has 120 seconds left.
HKPNVE2076 has 90 seconds left.
Dylan of Sinnoh forfeited.
Dylan of Sinnoh left.
Player 1 disconnected and has a minute to reconnect!
HKPNVE2076 won the battle!
作者: DOMO    時間: 1/3/2015 09:21 AM
...巨金怪先手沒有BUG,自己場上有順風,算是蜻蜓龍功勞.
而且蜻蜓龍本來就比較屬於補完性較重的精靈,不需強求出鏡.
況且出陣本來就傾斜於MEGA...怎樣比都不會比M巨金多了.

至於好不好用要嘗試很多場才能知道,即使玩了多年我也只能談個大概.
而且隊伍很難組到面面俱圓,你改了一只PM,又會有一些奇怪問題.

只能說抗性是肯定沒問題,跟欺空晴雨打雖然吃力但也可以一戰,
但進攻力度未必足夠,因為格鬥打點太少,遇上M袋獸之類會比較困難,算是隊伍最大問題.

其他可以考慮的配置,例如之前提到的龍板蜻蜓,家門鳥可以考慮命玉過熱,
這樣對威嚇的針對將更徹底......雖然我是你對手的話大概很少上威嚇.
如果想改善打欺空,司令可以考慮腰帶,當然力度一定有失.
作者: Flygon2076    時間: 1/3/2015 10:19 AM
本帖最後由 Flygon2076 於 1/3/2015 10:24 AM 編輯
DOMO 發表於 1/3/2015 09:21 AM
...巨金怪先手沒有BUG,自己場上有順風,算是蜻蜓龍功勞.
而且蜻蜓龍本來就比較屬於補完性較重的精靈,不需強 ...


忘記了說，對方賽後表示巨牙鯊有專圍，表示我巨金比他快是cheat...
可是現在想一想，巨牙鯊不是MEGA嗎? 怎會有專圍?
蜻蜓現在是+速-特攻特性，252A252SP4D，用龍板的話地震力度不是變得更弱嗎? 現在龍系對攻有3隻抗龍，以飛機對攻還可應付，我發現很多人不清楚蜻蜓龍的用法，還有擋土地雲及雷電雲有奇效，基本上可以對著這兩隻大搖大擺放順風，還有讀對方岩系招打火隼上場對方通常虧大的，還有這隊其實浮游和飛行系精靈佔了大半，對蜻蜓龍用地震進攻是很有幫助，龍星的威力未如理想，又通常不會對攻龍系，我覺得地板可能比較有作用，至於用龍GEM/地GEM又點睇?

威嚇的話有劈斬司令在相信對方不會這樣容易上吧，可是隊伍對付雨隊，尤其是MEGA龍舞鯉魚龍基本上輸了，還有欺空隊感覺只能靠火隼的飛行先制打，隊伍沒有挑撥也是一個問題。晴隊反而感覺沒這樣差。司令不用命玉的話感覺上力度太小，很多時候都不能解圍，白白犧牲隊友。至於袋獸，MEGA巨金已經刻意落重臂錘針對MEGA袋獸，也有50%OHKO，配合隊友不難解決。

其實我覺得我另一隊比較穩定，這一隊都是用來嘗試用蜻蜓龍，另一隊是風妖/岩牛/司令/火隼/M耿鬼/三頭龍，這隊配套較齊全，不過操作M耿鬼還是有一定難度 (P.S. 這一隊是我活動帖提交的答案，用起上來還感覺不錯)

其實我一直玩開OU單打規，對雙打環境還是剛起步，請各位多多指教了
作者: DOMO    時間: 1/3/2015 11:15 AM
那傢伙大概不知道自己在說神馬吧.

有寶石則當然寶石,反正攻擊不了多少次,但是正常是沒有寶石.

我一般選擇加攻擊都是選單點最大威力的來加,因為覺得點的最多,
而蜻蜓龍單點輸出最高是雙打難用的逆鱗.其次就是流星群,別被種族值騙了.
(當然戰報區也有一些我的老戰報是雙打用逆鱗,但不推薦模仿-_,-)
你選加地面攻擊也行,這是仁者見仁,完全沒問題.

至於巨金怪確實可以限制袋獸發揮,但除非巨金怪是滿血,否則這其實和大嘴對拼是同一樣問題.
作者: Flygon2076    時間: 1/3/2015 07:13 PM
若然用流星群的話，我的性格和努力是不是應該重新調配?
感覺減特攻0EV的流星群非常乏力...
作者: DOMO    時間: 1/3/2015 09:12 PM
額，純理論層面蜻蜓龍該減防或特防，但實際上是那一項我沒研究不瞎扯，這要你自己測試研究。

順便一提，六圍都需要用到的精靈，一般是在速度以外選最低的一項來減。當然只是「一般而已」。
作者: HimTE    時間: 1/3/2015 09:24 PM
雖戰報仲未得閒睇，但我見到你隻沙漠蜻蜓後，覺得Y噴好似幾適合同沙漠蜻蜓平排（？
順風後比Y噴暴力外，你仲有feint可以破解任何想保護或廣泛擋Y噴熱風既寵，而且主要輸出地震Y噴又唔受影響

不過如果加入Y噴後，洗衣機同劈斬可以留，但烈箭雀同巨金怪就要換一換了
作者: Flygon2076    時間: 1/3/2015 10:50 PM
HimTE 發表於 1/3/2015 09:24 PM
雖戰報仲未得閒睇，但我見到你隻沙漠蜻蜓後，覺得Y噴好似幾適合同沙漠蜻蜓平排（？
順風後比Y噴暴力外，你 ...

其實當初的隊伍構成係由沙漠蜻蜓, 波克基斯, 劈斬開始
之後才因應抗性和輸出挑了MEGA巨金，最後放火隼補盲

若然以Y噴代火隼的位置，原本巨金個位好難選隊員，尤其要放格鬥系剋制MEGA袋獸，岩牛抗性不太理想，格+鋼的組合理應是最佳選擇，路卡太脆，岩牛的朋友鋼牛的威力欠奉，防三角又奇奇怪怪，不過有幫助/快防/挑撥等技，可以考慮SUPPORT向



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